Earlier today I saw this article http://www.cnbc.com/id/33002534 this issue was one that thought would be a good point counterpoint on prostitution. I would love to hear from everyone on both sides of the issue.
Point
Counter Point
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Point
Counter Point
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Josh McDonald-
There isn't really an argument - "consensual" prostitution is a myth, and one that masks the dehumanization that is inherent in sex trafficking. Make no mistake about it, prostitution (even in the most developed of countries) is nothing more than sexual slavery. Everyone involved in prostitution - the prostitutes, the johns, the pimps, and the ... Read Moreauthorities who condone their actions - are lesser for it.
The most concise, and well-researched 10 arguments against legalizing prostitution can be found here:
http://action.web.ca/home/catw/attach/Ten%20Reasons%20for%20Not%20Legalizing%20Prostitution.pdf
Christopher Ford-
Josh-Thanks for the info. I've been feeling a bit Libertarian as of late and have been pondering this very subject.
Christopher Ford-
And let me say that I'm about as conservative as it gets! No liberal here.
Dustin Jones
as much as i hate to say it. no amount of making it more illegal is going to make it not exist. The only option is if we cant make it stop by making it illegal. then we need to put a control over it. You put controls on it by making it legal. This way you can better protect all that are involved. Let me give you an analogy. It didnt do any good making alcohol illegal it only made things worse.
about an hour ago · Delete
Josh McDonald
Evidence from the Netherlands & Germany, where prostitution is now legal, indicates that it only legitimizes the sex trade, increasing demand and turning pimps into "respectable" businessmen. Foreign sex trafficking increases in those countries as demand rises, and women are actually less safe and less healthy.
Also, because many women resist declaring themselves as official public prostitutes the black market sex trade still persists.
Toby Pedford
Ok, before I weigh in on the paper I want to understand Josh's point about consensual prostitution being a myth and also that all prostitution is sexual slavery. I think there may be a connection that I am missing.
Toby, I'm gonna have to wait for Josh to get to the punch line myself. I have no doubt that forced sexual slavery exists here, but for the most part every prostitute (who I call whores) chooses to live that life. It sounds to me like Josh believes they are held against their will to preform sex acts. That would actually be a first degree felony in Texas. Is this the case Josh? Or can any woman/man that wants walk up to any Police Officer they want and get help? Prostitution is illegal for a reason. It's because that is what they choose to do for money. There are plenty of people that do not have workforce "skills" that don't rent out their private parts. Having said that, I do not condone it because it is against the law. If it were legalized, then yes, I would agree more women would "choose" to do it.
Tim Herbel
Check out Christine Caine's lesson the subject. She's from Hillsong in Australia and had a moment in Greece that got her attention. http://www.lifechurch.tv/message-archive/watch/stop-acting-like-a-christian/2
Josh McDonald
Let me unpack that idea a little - a significant percentage of prostitutes are literally sex slaves, taken against their will and sold to pimps. Even in Europe & the US they make up a lot of the sex trade.
Those who aren't literally forced into prostitution are slaves to drug addiction, abject poverty, or have been victims of sexual abuse at a ... Read Moreyoung age. Prostitution is the most degrading of all "professions" and the women who voluntarily enter into it while of sound mind and body are so few as to suggest that consenual prostitution is a myth. In a fully healthy society it has no place.
Dustin Jones
you see we all have moral objections to this but lets face it society has always tried to get rid of prostitution. Its the world oldest profession for a reason. The only real way to stop prostitution would be to enact a level of security that would also violate individual privacy. As long as there is greed. You will always have people willing to do anything for greed. That includes prostitution. We can talk all we want about how to end it but you have to address the root cause which is greed.
Robin Bales
The root cause isnt greed, it's lust and as long as men are willing to pay for this it will exist. If you want to end prostitution then all things sexually explicit must come to an end. I personally don't believe it's possible.
Well its interesting that you mention slavery in this equation. It seems that in large part many these women are slaves to lifestyle choices of their own volition that eventually lead them to a life of prostitution. Abject poverty is a reality and prostitution is used by these women to try and ease that reality with profit.
To the issue of abduction, and rape... this is wrong in every case as it is a violation of that persons choice and will and a usurpation of the sovereign prerogative of the individual.
Webster online defines bondage as 2 : a state of being bound usually by compulsion (as of law or mastery) b : servitude or subjugation to a controlling person or force i.e. young people in bondage to drugs.
When we use the law (government force) to restrict liberty aren't we putting these women, and their customers in bondage?
One of the truest definitions of ownership is the ability to sell for profit. If you truly belong to yourself you should be able to in debt yourself... whether through bond-service to Visa / MasterCard, Marriage for position or monetary advancement, or selling sexual services to raise your own position.
I am not advocating this practice but the liberty to choose to take part in it. Saying that it legitimizes the illegal and brutal aspects of the trade is like saying selling ford or Toyota legitimizes the illegal chop shop. Honoring and recognizing individual choice can never be equated to excusing immoral or inexcusable behavior.
Dustin Jones
i disagree that its about lust. The women arnt doing it because they feel lust. They are doing it to a combination of terrible economic times and greed. I dont doubt their is slavery involved in a large percentage of prostitution .There has been a noticeable increase of dancing and prostitution on the rise because of the economy. Some people in the... Read More world however i could see do it to improve their lives. Imagine working in a sweat shop in china or serving as a prostitute in the us. Which one would you pick hard labor slavery or slavery through prostitution? Or ask yourself an even more difficult question some of these women do what they do to take care of their kids. How far would you go to feed your kids? Is it a good option no but it is an option.
if you really want to make it so prostitution doesnt exist. Then you have to somehow get rid of lust,greed, and have an economy where noone would have to or want to prostitute
There are a few issues here.
1. Horny Guys-- They just wanna screw.
2. Dykes (not the official definition)-- Women that marry Horny Guys and don't put out.
3. Infidelity-- What happens when #1 and #2 get together.
There are a couple of different ways to go with the infidelity issue. You could screw your co-worker, secretary or pick a girl up at a bar. But this takes work. You gotta talk to them and be charming. The Horny Guy just wants to screw, doesn't want to cuddle or have a heart to heart conversation. Solution--go buy a hooker.
Now, by going to a legalized business that is regulated by law, and the hos get regular exams, would be the safest as far as public health is concerned (of course condoms should be used). But that only exists in Nevada. So as is, people have to go screw their hookers in an unregulated environment.
Back to these Dykes that Horny Guys marry. Many women use sex as a bargaining tool, or will be real slutty in the sack until they get married, but once they get married, receive their sperm donation and a couple of kids they suddenly turn into abstinent nuns. Some women may have body image issues and simply won't do it with the light on or doggy style or some other position that the woman feels exposes her. This is stuff that leads to infidelity. Of course...being a flat out bitch can cause this too...no matter how slutty she may be.
So, the lesson to married women. If they don't want their husbands to cheat on them especially with a prostitute, Put out! If your man wants you to do something slutty, if it doesn't hurt you, DO IT! Otherwise you are a Dyke!
If you were giving BJ while you were dating...you should be willing to do it for the rest of your married life. To quit after you get married is to mis-represent what the groom though he was going to be enjoying for the rest of his days. Now he's trapped with this Dyke's ass, divorce is expensive and prostitution is illegal. All this crap, and a guy simply wants to be satisfied.
The idea that the government can prevent all people from doing something is the real myth. More importantly, the idea that the government has the authority to stop an individual from having complete personal liberty is atrocious.
This is a moral issue, NOT a legal issue.
Well, you certainly one-upped my whore comment "B".
Anyway, as it stands it is illegal in most places, which does make it a legal issue.
Also, when a moral issue begins to affect the civil liberties of others, that is when the government should step in. So the question is, does it affect the civil liberties and/or safety of others? I may have to disagree with you Lori, with prostitution comes drugs and with drugs comes prostitution. With drugs and prostitution comes crime. Therefore it does infringe on the rights of others. BUT it is still a CHOICE other people make for themselves.
Ok, it "shouldn't" be a legal issue, but rather a moral issue exclusively.
Making drugs and prostitution illegal creates crime in and of it's self.
If drugs + prostitution = other crimes, aren't there already other laws that prohibit the "other crimes"? It is already illegal to beat someone, to rape someone, to vandalize, to kidnap, etc., etc. Making something illegal for the purpose of preventing a possible crime that could in some cases be committed, should not be justification to take yet another freedom away, moral or otherwise.
Lori,
I see your counter point, after "B"'s comedy relief. We made laws based on a moral issue.
I'm just frustrated because I haven't had any in a while.
I think that goes without saying "B"....
"B" I would have put money down that you were a girl.
Maybe if "B" paid for it he wouldn't have a problem getting any....
For the record, "B", I'm not encouraging you to find a prostitute, be a prostitute, or do drugs. lol.
Most guys pay for sex in one way or another. It is all prostitution whether you pick a girl up on the street corner or take her on a date, buy her a ring and marry her. It all costs money. Listen to what Marc Rudov has to say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii1-IN_MPLM&feature=PlayList&p=CF5DD0C3DC0BD2FE&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=25
So why are we picking and choosing which for of monetary exchange is considered prostitution?
If you win a car in a drawing, you still have to pay taxes on it as if it had been purchased. As far as the IRS is concerned, you should have the money laying around to still pay taxes on it even though you did not go to the dealer to buy a car.
This is the same as if you have to do something nice for a wife or girlfriend in order to get some booger. Even though there may or may not be a monetary exchange, there is still a trade taking place. If I give a hooker a cheeseburger for sex, isn't that still prostitution?
Making sense?
I had never thought about it that way, but I would have to agree that material possessions and marriage, in exchange for sex is still prostitution. I just has a slightly nicer wrapping paper on the outside. Would the party with the money in that situation continue to get sex like they want after the wedding bells though? That's a risky transaction.
I have a question for you though "B". Are you saying that all marriage is prostitution? Or just the gold digger style marriage as discussed on the you tube video that you posted?
Lori,
Not all marriage is prostitution. I do have to say that in today's society, MOST is prostitution. I would say that the rate of prostitution by marriage parallels the rate of divorce. These people whom for the most part are divorced, are probably married for the wrong reasons. For the guy, it was probably good sex... for the girl it was probably some worldly possession that he had.
We live in a narcissistic, superficial society. Whatever looks shiny or improves the public image of one's self on the outside, lures people into false relationships--relationships of prostitution. For example... Say a guy drives a nice shiny 2009 Camero. Girl sees this and thinks, ohh... I wan a part of this--I don't care if I'm a Christian and he's a Muslim--we can work it out. So she starts doing slutty things to him. He likes it and they get married. She got her shiny car to drive around he got his girl that is slutty in the sack. Now that they are married--he doesn't want her to go out with her friends--she lets herself go(gets chunky) and quits giving it up in the sack. He thinks, since I have to put up with so much crap to get any--I'll just pork this girl at work. All this ending up in divorce because he wanted some pooty poo, and she wanted a shiny car.
But it is not always in this form. I have a cousin whom--as soon as his wife received her college degree--the degree he and his family payed for--she filed for divorce. Not sure at what point in the relationship she started soliciting him--or if he was soliciting her for anything--my point is that it doesn't always have to be something shiny, but is always something of value. In this case a college degree for the Mrs.
It is difficult to spot a prostitute on the surface. There are poor prostitutes and wealthy prostitutes. I think the key factor is trying to spot a prostitute is the "simple things" that might make a girl happy. If it takes a lot of expensive things--and pampering to make her happy. She's probably a ho. Especially if her only way of returning the favor is to "thank him" with sex. Maybe I'm wrong, but sex should only occur because both people like to please and love each other. When a girls starts to give him sex because he bought her a relaxing day at the day spa--or something else material--that's when it becomes prostitution.
A girl should only have sex if she enjoys it. If she only does it because she wants to reward him for something he has given her. She's going to get tired of sex at some point during the marriage and it will probably wind up in divorce.
Did I answer your question?